What more is there to say?
deceitful, half-truths, motives and....?
deceitful, half-truths, motives and....?
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(rt. click on images to open in a new window)
and there's more.....
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Vote NO on Measure D,
then vote NO on Measures C and E
In light of the City of Bell salary and benefit scam which resulted in more cities and counties posting their compensation packages publicly, this group of iniatives has more relevance than ever. A precedent needs to be set. And the fact that these iniatives predate the Bell scam and the fallout by years shows that the people involved had a foresight that cannot be denied. Public compensation is bloated needs to be reined in. Why attack the "motives" of individuals? The issue is more relevant than ever and attack the issue not the people who sponsored it.
ReplyDeleteMurrieta and Bell, apples to oranges.
ReplyDeleteNo it's not apples to oranges. Council pay as well as benefits are an issue. These initiatives will motivate other citizens in other cities to take their leaders on. This issue is bigger than Murrieta. People are sick of the cost of government. They are even sick of paying "memberships" to other government entities. The whole structure stinks. Is this Blog run by a pro status quo admin?
ReplyDeleteBell and Murrieta are worlds apart, as in apples "Charter City and oranges "General Law City. Apparently you don't know the difference and why Murrieta could never be another Bell, that is unless Murrieta changed it's spots.
ReplyDeleteSo what are these other "membership" entities and why are they are bad for any of the members, especially Murrieta?
BTW - Even if the ordinance passes, it would not change the status of participation in the intergovernmental agency, as the City is the paying member and a council person mearly attends on behalf of the City. Not the other way around where a council person is reimbursed for membership Get it?
No you don't get it. People could care less if Murrieta is General Law or whatever. Citizens don't need an arrogant lesson on structure. The electorate is just sick of the waste in government. Intergovernmental "membership" fees are a good example of that but are only the tip of the iceberg. Murrieta may have low monetary compensation but everything else the Council does costs Murrieta's citizens a boatload. Murrieta needs to be an example and I am sure the people of Bell and many other locales will follow what happens here and use these initiatives as an example of real change. Local government costs too much and it does not have to. As a matter of fact this city should follow the example of Maywood Ca. and fire everyone and outsource. Here is the link to positive change: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/20/business/20maywood.html?pagewanted=all
ReplyDeleteMaywood’s demise started in 2006 and they didn’t fire anyone and hire consultants by choice. Again, apples to oranges.
ReplyDeleteBack to Murrieta.
What are the other interagency organizations and why are they bad? Do you know?
Talk to your local legislator on structure (General or Charter). They are the ones that set it. It is what it is and cannot be changed from the bottom up, as in these initiatives. They will only end up in court, as local law does not trump State law. Now that is a waste of taxpayer dollars. Case in point, Arizona and Oklahoma.
Murrieta residents and council do Get It. A few years ago they made the choice not to roll over to a Charter City and become another Bell.
We agree these initiatives are an example of change, but for the bad. Local government is the first line defense against the top, as in E-verify laws now being passed by Cities because the Feds (past 3 presidents and more) won't do their job. Why would anyone want to throw it away? Not I.
No it is a good comparison. Murrieta can save money by closing its police dept and firing its employees and then outsourcing in order to save costs. A good start is passing the Initiatives to rein in the Council costs. Next we must vote out the current council and put people in that are willing to save the people of Murrieta money by thinking differently. Outsourcing works and these initiatives will work too and show other cities the roadmap to controlling our leaders and their self annointed perks. This is obviously a pro Council biased blog and should not be listened to.
ReplyDelete3 posts, all talking points, no substance.
ReplyDeleteSurprised to learn that councilmember attendance at interagency commissions is not paid by for Murrieta and would not be affected by the Measure D? The author’s of the Measures may have had good intent, but they had no clue in how to go about it.
What are the other interagency organizations and why are they bad? Do you know? Let me help you:
Let’s preclude Murrieta council members from participating in interagency dialog (referred to as “clubs” by the authors of measures), such as RCTC. Who now would fight for “your” Measure A gas tax money for infrastruction improvements, such as all of our freeway crossings? I Got It, let’s use Murrieta to set an example. And while we are throwing her under the bus, we can burn our gas, throwing away the tax money we just donated to for filling up, and set forever trying to cross the I-15.
You said outsourcing works but the statement has no substance to debate. Where is it working?
Outsource Fire, to where, the State? Another beaurcratic agency? This statement is clueless.
Why do you suppose Murrieta is the number 2 safest city in the Nation, second only to Irvine. Can’t say I like all of Murrieta’s PD, but I do appreciate the breeze from an open window. You like crime? Not I.
Your posts too are all Council talking points and fake substance. You are just protecting political cronyism and are a part of it. This is not throwing Murrieta under the bus. It is throwing Murrieta government under the bus. Murrieta government and how it functions is the problem. We have a safe city yes but at what cost? This city is a social wasteland with little to do outside of dive bars, below average restaurants, and some hokey amusement venues. This city needs to have life injected back into it. Change begins at the top. You may not like it. The Council may not like it. But the voters are fed up with their leaders screwing them. There is a Bell fervor in the air and it extends to Murrieta and its initiatives. Your fruity arrogance and professorial manner to be one up shows some insecurity. You know this change is coming. It may not affect everything it intends to but it is a great start towards real change that matters to average Murrietans.
ReplyDeleteDid you read the link on the City of Maywood? Did you see how much money was saved? Did you see all the satisfied parties? Wait! Here is another action taken by another smart city...San Carlos Ca. tonight voted to outsource some services...including its entire police department. Link:http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15875358 I would much rather have the Sheriffs in Murrieta than MPD. MPD is like the Gestapo. The Sheriffs that serve Temecula and the county are several notches more professional and have a higher level of integrity. I have dealt with both and the difference is profound.
ReplyDeleteYour experience(s) with law enforcement is very telling. Sounds more like a personal problem.
ReplyDeleteThe Maywood link? Yes, dated material. Like I said, Maywood's problems started in 2006 and just like Bell, because of corruption. Are you implying corruption in Murrieta?
The real problem, all over the state, is pensions. They are eating the taxpayer alive. These initiatives do nothing to solve this problem and will only cause more problems.
You want new faces? Nobody could really believe putting a daycare operator, with no substantial administrative experience, in charge of 100,000 residents a change for the better. That is laughable.
If you think Murrieta PD’s are Gestapo’s, then those are the guys I want protecting my City streets.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.murrieta.org/services/police/prdetail.asp?id=862
And it all started with a broken headlight. Who would have figured?
I have dealt with MPD and the Sheriffs in a professional capacity and I have no arrest record... so your stupid speculation to my "experience" issue as a "personal problem" is a typical stretch used by people on the losing end of arguments in order to attack the poster personally and divert attention away from the core arguments. If you want to compare abuse by MPD to that of the Sheriffs then let's do it. MPD is hardly saintly. So let's see who abuses citizens more....also I know who that daycare operator is. She is a nice person but is not Council material. Whatever made you think I was a supporter of her?
ReplyDeleteAlso: Last month is dated material? Really? July 19 2010 is outdated? So what about San Carlos on Aug 24 2010 ...Link:ttp://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_15875358 or Newark NJ Link:http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/08/newark_mayor_bookers_plan_to_o.html That's a pethetic dismissal of the material. Why does corruption have to exist in order to consider outsourcing? Whether Murrieta has corruption or not is irrelevant to the concept of outsourcing. It's all about saving taxpayers large chunks of money. And the Initiatives are all about saving the taxpayers money too.
ReplyDeleteOutsourcing: Got It !! Jump on the band wagon and follow something that has yet to be proven. The only examples offered are cities that were either deep in over their heads or were corrupt.
ReplyDeleteOutsourcing: Got It !! Hire a pool boy off the corner for $10, only to find out he is not dependable, does light bushing and rarely checks the traps. Or, hire one for $20 that shows up at the same time every week, will check the chemicals, traps and occasionally wash the filters. Lesson learned, you get what you pay for. For those 3 cities offered, time will tell the real story on the supposed cost savings of outsourcing.
Maywood, turned to outsourcing not because they thought it was a fiscally sound idea, but because they were forced to. Corruption put them on the hook for $19 million in judgments and insurance companies turned them down. They had no choice but to outsource. And with a low median income, around $30,000, the residents have to go cheap.
It's common knowledge, Bell was also forced to outsource because of their corruption and greed.
San Carlos, a city of 28,000, faced a deficit every year for the past decade, they had exhausted their budget strategies and were forced to outsource. They outsourced parks maintenance. Big deal, Murrieta already does this. They turned over childcare programs to the school district, where it should have been to begin with.
Overall, these 3 cities are pitiful examples as to why outsourcing is good and I’m done doing someone else’s homework.
Murrieta is fiscally sound, has not indebted the residents up their eyeballs, provides decent services, the median income is above the national average, the streets are clean, traffic is (finally) moving, crime is hardly noticeable and city hall is responsive, all for a fair price (like no tax increases). Could they do things cheaper, sure, but you get what you pay for.
If you are looking for more watering holes, when it comes to development, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink it. The Triangle is a prime example. I can’t even image that the Domenigoni family likes their prime property sitting vacant? Lewis bailed when they learned freeway ramps weren’t up to par and objected when the City said they, not the taxpayer, needed to pay for the improvements. The last attempt died with the economy. And the third prior plan was a joke.
The initiatives will not save a dime, and will only cost the residents in the long haul. Council pay is minimal (total comp, a thousand bucks a month) for the time (40 hrs/wk) and work involved.
Sorry, but I’m not interested in a small time daycare operator negotiating terms with billon dollar healthcare facilitators or developers such as Lewis. Murrieta would end up being the joke of the century if she even attempted to put the two of them in the same in room. That, my friend, would cost this City dearly.
BTW, attacking someone by saying “Your fruity arrogance”, then accusing that same person of attacking the poster, is like the pot calling the kettle black.
Your pool analogy is funny. You have to sign a contract for price and services so what you are suppose to recieve is defined. I guess your analogy depends on whether the cheaper person has integrity or not. The same applies to the $20 dollar guy. He could also cut corners.
ReplyDeleteOutsourcing has a long and successful history in business in cutting costs, increasing competiveness, and increasing quality of service. There is every reason to believe applying the same proven concept to governments will achieve the same proven results. As I said corruptness or fiscal issues are not needed to use it.
I agree that the daycare provider belongs where she is. You brought her into this conversation and I don't understand why. She is not council material as I said. The Initiatives cut costs and Council waste. They are over-compensated in benefits and their salary needs to be limited. If they can't handle the 40 hour workload because they feel it is not justly compensated then they need to step down and go earn a living. Being on the Council is temporary public service for those with the time to dedicate to it. It is not a place to rake in benefit bucks.
Truth,
ReplyDeleteReally, a contract has to be signed with a pool boy? I guess that would apply to gardeners as well and that I had better get one with my gardener, ya think?
I don’t care about the daycare candidate. She was only brought in at random, as a 1 in 5 non-incumbent council candidate, when you said: “Next we must vote out the current council and put people in that are willing to save the people of Murrieta money by thinking differently.” Glad we agree on this person. I guess that means with only 3 seats available, and with one of the non-incumbents being a former City of Murrieta employee, then you will be voting for the remaining non-incumbents whom have had very little, if any, involvement government, unless of course there is a write-in candidate hanging out on fringes.
As I view the rest of your comments, I see no basis of support in them and that they are only opinion.
You said:
“Outsourcing has a long and successful history in business in cutting costs, increasing competiveness, and increasing quality of service. There is every reason to believe applying the same proven concept to governments will achieve the same proven results”
True statement, to a point. It works wonderful in industrial applications, but how would outsourcing apply to a City, specifically Murrieta? As I have already said, Murrieta outsources park maintenance, and has never has been or is in the waste and water service business. You’ve already said PD could be outsourced, with a willingness (personal position) to give up the status of being the #2 safest city in the nation (op-a sacrifice no resident should ever consider). Is there anything else to be outsourced?
You said:
“The Initiatives cut costs and Council waste.”
-- What costs do the initiatives cut? What do you consider waste to be? (that leads back to an opinion, not a fact). You’ve already said memberships, but that is a broad statement. What memberships and why? (asked 3 times already and you have yet to reply. Problems?)
Now you don’t have to prove anything to me, but if you want your statements and opinions to be viewed as creditable, you might consider offering some facts. Otherwise, in my opinion, your comments are only an (uninformed) opinion.
Now off for some light shopping, lunch, and a little outdoor activity in Murrieta. Hope you enjoy your day as well. I could sign off as Wisdom, with our back and forth comments being viewed as the debate between Truth and Wisdom. But that would be a little arrogant, wouldn’t you agree? So for now, I’ll just refer to myself as Anon-A so there is no confusion in future comments.
Anon-A
There is plenty of time for more detail. You will get it. Hopefully your blog will take off.
ReplyDeleteWell,found a blog that actually gives some facts. I liked the detail of comments at the top of the page, it certainly makes one wonder why the proponents of the poorly written initiatives don't get it. One problem that I see it is they did little research before writing these, did not understand the City pay structure, had no idea that police and fire cannot be exempted as direct reports of the City Manager, and the list goes on. Keep the facts coming, the visuals might help some people actually get it! Thank you.
ReplyDeleteSenator Chuck DeVore and Senator Ray Haynes both endorse and support all three Murrieta initiatives. These two senators are very conservative and care very much for the taxpayer. If these were bad initiatives why would they endorse them?
ReplyDelete